Closer pay than at fang where Its about -10% less for PMs. Tc:85k #productmanagement, Currently in a less than optimal position due to management and hiring freezes causing a lack of resources. Seriously? Keep in mind that careers arent linear. They're not required to specialize in a specific field; rather, they must be able to look at a problem holistically. Chaos is usually rooted in misunderstanding. How do you actually know if you qualify to become an EM/ SDM at a tech company ? Swe earn more. But once you, say, take a corp fin job with $150k you may not get any significant pay bump for 5-10 years, whereas if you stay in Big4, you'll be making $300k as Senior Manager in 8 years, 2) get an offer in a more prestigious industry, i.e. Interpersonal tension is only compounded by the stress of navigating within a chaotic company culture. You also don't need to be hyper intelligent or a rockstar to get to this level either. Ask anyone who has worked in big tech for more than a couple of years. Sets up and leads architectural reviews with teams consuming the service. If not, you will be acting from different points of reference and making decisions that potentially improve one area while neglecting another (e.g., over-emphasizing team velocity at the detriment to code quality). I'm considering moving to product management. Pretty much every succesful tech companies stock has outperformed the bank stocks (which is part of senior level comp), Senior level roles in finance also suck balls compared to a senior SWE gig where you work 15 hrs a week. Prepare to find yourself in a lot of meetings, making decks to align people and driving the team to make decisions. Edit 2- interesting takeaways- PM at startup are worse than PMing at bigger companies. Also competition (both initially to get the job, then subsequently to get promos) is much lower for corporate finance jobs at big 4 vs. investment banks. Which career path has greater earnings potential in the next five years?Please comment why? Microsoft How do you actually know if you qualify to become an EM/ SDM at a tech company ? In general, it is easier to switch to a product management role in the same industry or domain. I bet this question is for those in HR , levels.fyi is probably another good source, At workday. Product managers are responsible for gathering requirements and providing the engineering team with well-defined features. Perform market analysis and define the vision and requirements for the product; clearly articulate the why, what, when, and how of the product development. Switching to Pm Because you think SWE is too hard is a bad idea lmao. Square The Product Manager primarily focuses on learning the needs of users and communicating those needs to relevant stakeholders in the company to make sure the product meets those needs. TC : $360k case study #pm #product #productmanager #indeed, Title. In this video, Ex-G. Amazon I see many engineers spend close to 200k for MBA from top universities and then become Product or Sr. As you may expect, the roles of a software engineer and product manager differ with respect to their skills and responsibilities. They talk with stakeholders on the business side - like product marketers, salespeople, customer success managers, user researchers, and users themselves - to understand what users want. Meta, Go to company page We use this information in order to improve and customize your browsing experience and for analytics and metrics about our visitors both on this website and other media. Natus dolorum quibusdam quia quisquam sequi. Be quick to sing their praises and give credit where it is due. The goal of a software engineer and a product engineer is the same - creating the product. Youre in fewer meetings and hopefully have fewer distractions. There is usually much less resistance as an EM. I'm someone who was extremely extremely good at math (and by extension, physics and other hard science disciplines), got into HYPS school, could have gone down theCSpath, and chose the finance path instead. Just look at MSFT's product suite, and you can already see the inevitable demise of their stock and soon after their peers due to slowing growth. The first is the strategy component. below post says non-engineering will be cut. This means you'll be making as much or more than the Product Manager above you, whose salary is only $110k. Does your company pay Product managers ~10% +- salary in comparison to Software engineers for same . Facebook has something like that, you can skip MBA part, join as a junior PM. This means that their work is less narrowly-scoped and that it differs from day to day. Ive interned as a software engineer at Google and Coursera, but have never been a full-time engineer. Not enough SWEs. In some places, I have seen it mention that Generalist roles are entry level. Amazon / Eng RonHubbard. They are relatively orthogonal skill sets. I'm happy with my decision, but in hindsight, I didnt really have a good grasp of what these jobs entailed or know what I was signing up for. Ive been looking to start applying elsewhere before it gets worse. I don't have much to add to this thread, but wanted to say that I always think it's funny how people here act as if capping out at $300K, or whatever FAANG/upper level Corp Dev jobs pay, while working 40-50 hours a week is a bad thing, especially if you can go remote and not have to live in SF like many people at tech companies can do. I am starting to look at roles to apply for and from Levels.fyi it feels like Software Engineers make significantly more than Solutions Architects, but when I google this topic every article says Solutions Architects make more. Any cons? Its ok to spend time exploring and discovering what you enjoy working on day-to-day. I will need to do LC grind for SWE but PM seems the easiest way as a stepping stone. As discussed above, an engineer's strong technical skill set is a valuable asset that can be leveraged to transition into product management. In the last 20 years? Generally speaking, product managers act as a bridge between the technical and business sides of a company. Perferendis nostrum eos non quidem cumque inventore sit architecto. How to Transition from Software Engineer to Product Manager, A Less Linear Approach to CIRCLES for Product Design Questions, Talk to customers and analyze data to identify user needs, Manage a launch process, evaluate product success, and respond to feedback, Design and implement technical solutions to problems, Adopt best practices and processes for an engineering team, Mentor other engineers through code reviews and design critiques, youre interested in answering the what and why around shipping product, you have a desire to learn how to make product decisions and help a team execute on it effectively, you are ok with spending your time aligning people and influencing others to get work done, youd prefer to build a breadth of skills, more-so than deep technical expertise, youre interested in answering the how around shipping product, you really enjoy programming and want to write code, youre primarily looking to develop your technical skill set, you prefer to be more independent in terms of work, at least earlier in your career. Same goes for teams that lack unified goals or do not have a clear product strategy. 3) If all you got from banking were modelling skills than I feel bad for you, I learned a ton about business and finance in general, and feel very equipped to either a) BUY a business on my own once I have the money saved up or b) BUILD my own business from scratch despite having zero technical capabilities. Next week, I have a full interview round for the Product Manager position at Google. Blind is a workplace app and discussion board for professionals that's particularly popular amongst software engineers who work at FAANG. Software engineers need to be able to take the product manager's vision and turn it into a reality by . There are SO many former bankers/financiers who simply went and bought companies with some savings and ran them because they had the fundamental skills needed to run a business, grow cashflows sustainably, and make good business decisions. Do you know what to expect in a non-tech interview? lol no kid. Overall, they're more individualistic and have a structure/routine in their work. Get updates in your inbox with the latest tips, job listings, and more. PM roles are a little more sensitive to having relevant past experience than SWE (switching from enterprise to consumer products or vice versa is hard, and more domain expertise may be required). Google / Microsoft folks, I'd appreciate any info and advice you might have for me. are comparatively very easy to obtain. Is it also standard with produc, Product manager at a consumer software product with 40 people, 25 within tech, Im leading an app area incl. Interview Prep. Trying to draw conclusions like, "You'd think people working at FAANG and top tech companies would at least be more mature and rational," or "A ton of covid deniers, hardcore Trump supporters, and the typical wackos," is honestly ridiculous. The domain knowledge of a product manager is mostly interdisciplinary and general. Happy to guide aspiring Product Managers. nowhere near. The tech economy is way larger than the handful ofBBsandEBs. Check out these suggestions from eight marketing experts on how to show your true value in your first 30 days. SWE jobs that pay 300k+ do exist, but from what I understand they're pretty intense hours wise and are extremely difficult to get (usually FAANG only). Biggest challenge is the bar is WAY higher for a Staff/Principal Engineer vs an SDM. You are ultimately accountable for the product's success or failure. Software Engineer. Depends on market conditions. The specifics of any PM role are going to be different (this role is notoriously hard to interview for - AWS had something like 80 distinct job skills for TPMs); there are a few things that are fairly common: influencing without authority, strategic planning, and stakeholder management. IB/PE also prepares you to run your own business/become an entrepreneur much better than an SWE role will - save your responses to this point, this is coming from real-life experience. Would be really nice to get paid in equity from them. Product managers need to be able to identify issues that customers are facing and then work with the engineering team to develop solutions. These cookies are used to collect information about how you interact with our website and allow us to remember you. Microsoft, Go to company page Dropbox, ICs struggle to move up at staff or senior. Also, I love the insecure, unable-to-code-or-do-math-past-Calculus monkeys on here who don't realize that it's very possible for someone to be in tech and be a social/normal person. #pm #product #productmanager. corp fin advisory), not audit. What do I need to do to get into product management? You can do this by joining relevant . Hopefully, you pick the job thats right for you and have a blast doing it! #product #productmanager #pm. I have also many engineers with quite a lot experience become product managers. Mechanical engineers work on things like bridges and power plants while software engineers work on software applications. It is probably not always sunshine and roses over there. 2/apply to companies that has rotational PM program. For me, it is multitasking, however this doesn't seem like a good answer. Engineering managers want to build it. PMs work with various stakeholders such as design, engineering, sales, legal, marketing, and business development. Pay differs drastically between departments. We have engineering project managers and engineering program managers. 100%. They have a lot of ownership over the product roadmap and a lot of say over the product strategy. A software engineer at DoorDash can make as much as $250,000 in annual salary, according to compensation data compiled by Insider. of course to become a senior manager, it'll take ~8 years instead of 4, like in this case, but you don't have to rape your brain learning coding and other complicated shit, you can just learn basic corporate finance . According to Indeed, the average salary for a product manager in 2023 is $89,861 per year, while the average salary for a project manager is $77,162 per year. Uber. Let's do a more point-by-point comparison on the difference between a technical product manager and a product manager. #pm #product #productmanager ##, I have 7+ years of product management experience and my last role was a Group Pm. Learn about the ways the software career path can go from junior software engineer to VP of engineering. Neque et quam quisquam cumque numquam temporibus. Two houses, both alike in dignity. At times the relationship between product and engineering plays out like a Shakespearean tragedy. Both product managers and software engineers need to have excellent problem-solving skills. Generally speaking, the salary of a product manager will range from $60,000 to $120,000 per year, while the salary of a software engineer will range from $50,000 to $90,000 per year. Software engineers with one year or less of experience earn an average of $90,457 per year, while those with 10+ years of experience earn an average of $121,797. Ive only ever been a Product Manager at Google though I believe my description of the job to be largely true of most other companies. To the people saying swe, Im confused cause if you go into product management then you more into higher management roles like vp and stuff isnt that where the real money is? Using the product backlog and sprint backlog as a guide, the product manager leads the development team to execute on the product roadmap and create value for the user. Companies think PMs are replaceable and engineers are not. Quam amet voluptate dolorum sit corrupti. . Why are PMs hated so much ? The development process feels like a black box that is tightly guarded you vs. them. Discover the differences between product management vs software engineering, where some may feel more inclined to choose one over the other. Note that responsibility is distinct from accountability. Good / great work life balance.25 - 30 hours a week max. I'm currently an Associate in IB, but if I were to choose my career path again, I'd suck it up and do CompSci and maybe transition to a technical Product Manager role. No one is working together effectively. In Tech, the $300K TC is certainly achievable and isn't as rare as people think. Or still a 'job hop' stigma? Given my experience, I am a bit confused. What is an Engineering Management Platform? I will be discussing a PM offer with Revolut real soon. Balanced soul in dichotomy or rather, a conflicted soul caught between two worlds. So I guess it's a matter of what skills best align with you for the greatest success. And if you're a good SWE, you'll get paid way more than a good PM. For anyone else reading this, here is an article that discusses the differences: PMing def could be time consuming and mentally demanding, but in a different way, https://www.productplan.com/learn/product-management-vs-program-management/. Aha! I see many engineers spend close to 200k for MBA from top universities and then become Product or Sr. After all, your focus should be on the product and the customer. Do you see what I'm getting at here? With all that information, you then create the product roadmap. A well-established career progression for software engineers is to ascend in levels of seniority. Software development is so taxing. Around 350 - 400k TC3. Uber, Go to company page Product Manager. Microsoft Check out our blog on tech interviewing tips, strategies, and more. At Meta PM is about 85% of EM. Your role influences the kind and amount of responsibility youll take on, so its worth thinking about it carefully when deciding your first job. I've been a TPM for 8 years now and wanna transition to Product Manager. How easy/ hard is it. Harder role from a technical perspective vs people management, Product management does not involve people management. Esse quis corrupti molestias dolore at. I could really use some help. Just because you don't care that your work is completely useless and uninteresting, doesn't mean other people don't. 2005-2023 Wall Street Oasis. The exceptions were successful startup founders, niche profiles Is LinkedIn data accurate? Go to company page Product managers are responsible for understanding user needs, setting the product roadmap, working with engineering and design to deliver features. Partner with us to give your students interview prep. #ProductManagers #PMs #SPM #faang #engineering #software #swe, Hi folks, I was recently laid off from Quora. Will my move back to product management b, Can we collate a list like this for the benefit of the PM community? Also which career p. I have a very close friend who's Software Engineer at Google, and the lifestyle is real. Look at the actual entrepreneurs that built this country- the industrialists and tycoons of the roaring 20s that would have eaten mark zuckerberg for breakfast. Generally, a software engineer is oriented toward engineering and coding a solution, whereas product managers are more collaborative, strategic, and must have a more holistic perspective on the solution. LinkedIn seems a great company based on my observation in interviews. A few comments on blind do not constitute an industry norm. Commodi qui quidem qui aut consectetur dicta molestiae. Too many PMs. Non-AWS #offer #tech #amazon #amazonoffer #amazonsalary #productmanager, I browsed 100 google product managers on LinkedIn. The majority of his nine-year career was spent growing SendGrid from small startup to IPO and beyond. A product manager is involved with multiple teams and departments. Exponent's system design interview course. Product design questions may ask the interviewee to design an item for blind people. At other companies, product managers are more like project managers. LinkedIn, Go to company page The "product manager" title has become a catch-all term to an extent, which makes it hard to establish an exact definition. A software engineer is more siloed in their duties. Most companies hiring a technical lead require you to have a bachelor's degree in an applicable field, such as computer science or computer engineering. Why I Left Google (2019) Follow @debarghya_das. A lot of my friends, family, and college alumni work in tech. WSO ranks EBs. Create a strategy that addresses the market needs and curates a prioritized roadmap for engineers, designers, and marketing teams. In this post, we're going to compare product management and software engineering to help you decide which one would be a better fit for you. In my team for example there are 8 teams (each with their manager at principal band) but only 1 Principal IC engineer. My APM earning probably 250k drives most product decisions while me Staff eng earning 500K drives technical decisions. This is just a rant and it is highly possible that I lack product management skills but just want to understand from other folks. This path doesn't get talked a lot enough. He is the co-founder and CEO of. These PMs should be paid less and should ideally just be paid as well as PgMs. Eng, Go to company page I just got an offer for a senior PM at 160k (no equity etc) and curious with all the layoffs, more supply/less demand, if people are seeing lower offers in the world. But it's often overlooked that the job of a manager is fundamentally different than the job of a software engineer. Technical gaps vs. product gaps On the flip side, it means that you have less structure to support you. Sorry, you need to login or sign up in order to vote. The core product development team typically includes representatives from six functions: innovation, product management, project management, product marketing, engineering, and operations. Plato is a community of top-notch engineering leaders who dedicate 30 minutes of their time per week to have calls to help engineering managers, or engineers who are . At Meta for example its about 85% of SWE at the same band. Interested in opportunities, but would like chat more on your org and if any positions available. Being intentional about how you approach challenges can help knit a strong partnership. Get instant access to lessons taught by experienced private equity pros and bulge bracket investment bankers including financial statement modeling, DCF, M&A, LBO, Comps and Excel Modeling. Eng, Go to company page if you're an Associate 1-2 years out of school you're making $90-100k, but headhunters will hit your inbox on LinkedIn every other day and offer you corp fin / valuation / boutique IB and PE jobs that pay $150k, so you'd be tempted to take them. And by how much.500k/15+ yoe#productmanagement #productmanagersalary, Go to company page Most companies also dont know how to hire or evaluate good PMs. Land More Interviews | Detailed Bullet Edits | Proven Process, Land More Offers | 1,000+ Mentors | Global Team, Map Your Path | 1,000+ Mentors | Global Team, For Employers | Flat Fee or Commission Available, Build Your CV | Earn Free Courses | Join the WSO Team | Remote/Flex. Its equally taxing, sometimes more than SWE but in very different ways. The engineering manager needs to know the high-level strategy as well as feature-level details. Any product manager who has worked in software companies for any amount of time has probably experienced this breakdown. Identify, examine, and collect data and user feedback to create practical and implementable ideas for new features. Their skills, however, may remain the same. 4. You are not able to find a natural rhythm in how you collaborate. PMs please help!Tc: 280k, Go to company page I tried the PM Rotation program at Google and am on track to pass it.